mulch workspace --stealth discourse

Date: 2025 08-August 09

think of a sextant of possibilites

mulch src creates src/
mulch src --steath puts this in .mulch/src

mulch workspace creates a new workspace dir in /workspaces/
mulch workspace --here creates a new workspace dir in the CWD
mulch workspace --stealth would create a new workspace dir in .mulch/workspaces/
mulch workspace --here --stealth would create a new workspace dir in the .mulch, i think

the question is about the utility and use cases for the --stealth command with mulch workspace

---

it only really makes sense if you are creating both custom software using mulch workspace --stealth for various configs as well as having shared project files with coworkers built using workspace --here. the various config of custom local software would operate on the non-hidden workspaces

C3

Let's move on

I want to state another (relevant) problem. we can spitball ideas. I want you to understand this complexity.

the entire purpose of mulch src is that the path references in workspace_manager.py are able to know the various workspace folders and their constituent scaffolded elements

with mulch src and mulch workspace as different commands, and mulch src generally run before mulch workspace, there is no way to set the references properly with rigor

also if there are both hidden and public workspaces, the qurstion remains why one the src workspace_manager.py should reference - ideally it would be both, hidden for software configs and public for import and exports, but in the case of your readme message, the hidden workspaces would be unknown to the source code

the key problem isn't with multiple sets of workspaces hidden and public; the primary issue is actually the reference difference when the src dir is hidden or public

CG 3


Got it — this is a great breakdown of a thorny architectural challenge. Here’s how I understand the core problem you’re pointing at, with some thoughts and questions to help us brainstorm:

---

### Restating the problem

- **`mulch src` and `mulch workspace` are separate commands with different goals and paths**
    
    - `mulch src` scaffolds and manages the _source code_ directories, which may be visible (`src/`) or hidden (`.mulch/src/` with `--stealth`).
        
    - `mulch workspace` scaffolds _workspace_ directories for user data/config/projects, which may live in `workspaces/` (public) or `.mulch/workspaces/` (hidden) depending on flags.
        
- The `workspace_manager.py` code needs to reference the various workspace folders and their scaffolded subfolders. This means it needs **accurate path references** to all relevant workspaces.
    
- But if `mulch src` runs first, and the source code references paths assuming either a public or stealth workspace layout, it will have a **hard time knowing about the other type** of workspace (hidden or public). For example:
    
    - If `src` is stealth (hidden under `.mulch/src/`), and workspaces are public, the code might only know about the hidden source but not the public workspace paths.
        
    - If `src` is public and workspaces are stealth, then the source code won't naturally reference the hidden workspaces unless explicitly told.
        
- This makes it very difficult to **rigorously keep references synchronized and comprehensive** between the source code (which may itself be hidden or public) and the workspace folders (which also may be hidden or public).
    

---

### Why this is a problem

- **Source code must know workspace paths for runtime config, data import/export, analysis, etc.**
    
- **Hiding source or workspaces breaks assumptions about directory structure and discoverability.**
    
- Leads to brittle, hard-to-debug issues around missing data or configuration because the references don’t line up with reality.
    
- Managing dual visibility (hidden + public) workspaces is tricky, especially when source and workspace live in different visibility modes.
    

---

### Brainstorming potential approaches

1. **Unified Configuration Store**  
    Have a single configuration source (maybe a top-level `.mulch/config.toml` or an environment variable) that explicitly declares all relevant workspace roots — both hidden and public.  
    The source code reads from this and dynamically knows all workspaces regardless of their location.  
    This decouples the references from the physical layout of src/workspaces and puts it in a flexible config.
    
2. **Dynamic Discovery at Runtime**  
    Instead of hard-coding references in `workspace_manager.py`, implement a discovery method that scans known base directories for workspace folders — both hidden and public.  
    This requires clear naming conventions but lets you avoid rigid path assumptions.
    
3. **Force Consistent Visibility**  
    Require the `src` and `workspaces` visibility mode to match: if `src` is stealth, then all workspaces are stealth (inside `.mulch`), and if `src` is public, so are workspaces.  
    This reduces flexibility but guarantees path consistency.
    
4. **Multiple WorkspaceManager Instances**  
    Have two `WorkspaceManager` instances: one managing hidden workspaces and one managing public workspaces.  
    Then your source code orchestrates between them explicitly when working with configs vs. user data.  
    This adds complexity but cleanly separates concerns.
    
5. **Hybrid Setup with Symlinks or Mount Points**  
    Use OS-level symbolic links to unify hidden and public workspaces into a single logical directory structure, so the source code sees a unified tree.  
    This is OS-dependent and can get complicated, but transparent to the code.
    

---

### Questions for you to clarify or consider

- How often do you expect both hidden and public workspaces to coexist _within the same project_?
    
- Is it acceptable to require users to pick a consistent visibility mode (all stealth or all public) per project?
    
- Could you see the workspace references being dynamically generated or configured rather than hard-coded?
    
- How tightly coupled do you want `workspace_manager.py` to be with the physical directory layout versus an abstracted configuration?
    
- Are there specific workflows where source code needs to access _both_ hidden and public workspaces _simultaneously_?
    

---

If you want, I can help sketch out code or config examples for any of these ideas, or we can keep spitballing! What do you think?

C4

You've got it mostly

actually, there are three options for where workspaces are: hidden (.mulch/workspaces) when using --stealth, public (/workspaces/) as a default when using no flags, and user friendly (/) with workspaces created by name in the root dir using the --here flag 

so if i use --here or not with mulch workspace, that impacts the references in workspace_manager.py

and if the src is hidden or not that obviously also impaces the references

this is already a hard problem, and then to start talking about two sets of workspaces, one public (--here or default) and secend hidden set (given mulch workspace --stealth), things are pretty wild!

okay

assuming we only have one set of public workspaces, either --here or default, we still have a quadrant of ways that these can be referenced by the workspace_manager.py code, given --stealth or the default

how would you recommend handling this?

it could be as eaasy as explicity setting up the configuration before running the mulch src command, and adding a dedicated reference.lock file or other named file to .mulch to enfore consistency when multiple workspaces are generated over time

this could also be used to warn users about inconsistent usage of the --here flag with mulch workspace

is this a good idea? come up with a better approach or improve this one

CG 4

Gotcha — you want to manage the complexity of how `workspace_manager.py` references workspaces given that:

- There’s only one _public_ workspace set (created either by `--here` or default),
    
- But `mulch src` and `mulch workspace` can create workspaces in either a _hidden_ (`.mulch/`) or _public_ location,
    
- And you want to maintain consistent references so software can reliably find the workspaces without confusion or errors.
    

---

### Your idea recap:

- Require explicit configuration **before** running `mulch src`.
    
- Store that config in a dedicated file (e.g., `.mulch/reference.lock`).
    
- Use this file to enforce and warn about consistent workspace creation (e.g., warn if mixing `--here` and default).
    
- This enforces a single source of truth for workspace location(s).
    

---

### My thoughts / improvements on that idea:

**1. Make the reference config explicit and authoritative**  
Yes! Having a single config file in `.mulch/` that records the _canonical workspace location mode_ (`public here`, `public default`, or `hidden`) is great. It’s easy to read/write and acts as a gatekeeper.

- When running `mulch workspace`, check this config. Warn or error if the new workspace creation flags contradict it.
    
- When running `mulch src`, read this to know how to reference workspaces properly in `workspace_manager.py`.
    

**2. Automate consistency checks and user feedback**

- When running commands that affect workspaces or src, the CLI should automatically warn if user flags conflict with the stored config.
    
- Optionally provide a command like `mulch workspace sync` or `mulch fixrefs` that fixes workspace references or resets the mode.
    

**3. Allow explicit override with a flag, but discourage mixing**

- Sometimes, users might want to switch modes deliberately (e.g., from `--here` to default). Allow a `--force` flag to override the stored mode, but prompt them clearly about the risks.
    

**4. Store path references in a canonical way**

- Rather than storing relative paths blindly, always store absolute or well-resolved paths to workspaces in `workspace_manager.py` or config files. This reduces ambiguity regardless of cwd or src location.
    

**5. Document recommended workflows clearly**

- For example:
    
    - **Step 1:** Run `mulch workspace` with your desired flags to create the first workspace(s). This writes `.mulch/reference.lock`.
        
    - **Step 2:** Run `mulch src` to scaffold source referencing workspaces, which reads `.mulch/reference.lock` to produce consistent code.
        
    - **Step 3:** Avoid mixing flags in subsequent workspace creations unless you explicitly update `.mulch/reference.lock` via a controlled command or manual edit.
        

**6. Consider merging `mulch workspace --stealth` and `mulch workspace --here` into mutually exclusive modes**

- This simplifies the decision tree, and aligns references neatly:
    
    - Hidden mode (stealth) workspaces always under `.mulch/workspaces`
        
    - Public mode (here or default) always under `/workspaces` or cwd, consistently referenced
        
- Enforce one or the other per project.
    

---

### TL;DR / Summary:

|Aspect|Recommendation|
|---|---|
|Configuration file|Use `.mulch/reference.lock` storing canonical workspace mode and paths|
|CLI enforcement|Warn or error on inconsistent flag usage based on this config|
|Path references|Store absolute or normalized paths to workspaces in generated source and configs|
|User overrides|Allow explicit `--force` overrides but discourage mixing modes without sync|
|Workflow|Recommend: workspace creation (writes config) → src creation (reads config) → consistent references|
|Mode simplification|Enforce one workspace mode (hidden OR public) per project|

---

If you want, I can draft a sample `.mulch/reference.lock` format and example CLI validation logic next! Would that help?

C5

How would you generate this config file? a dedicated command? A warning if mulch workspace or mulch src is run and doesnt exsit?

but the problm is that there is information in the mulch workspace command and the mulch src command necessary to inform the reference.lock but that infromation isnt there until they are both run

CG5

Ah, I see the catch — the reference.lock depends on info from both mulch workspace and mulch src, but these commands run separately, and the order or timing can vary.

Here are some refined thoughts to handle that interdependency smoothly:

Approach: Incremental, Partial, and Mergeable Config Updates

  1. Split the config file into parts (or keep a single JSON/TOML but update it incrementally):

    • When you run mulch workspace, record only workspace-related info (paths, flags like --here or --stealth) in reference.lock.

    • When you run mulch src, update or add the src-related info (like src directory hidden or public, flags, etc.) to the same reference.lock file.

  2. On each command run (workspace or src):

    • Load the existing reference.lock if it exists.

    • Merge new info from the current command run into it.

    • Save back the updated file.

    • Validate consistency: if merging causes contradictions (like workspace is --stealth but src is public), raise a warning or error.

  3. If neither command has run yet (no reference.lock):

    • The first command run creates the file with its partial info. The second command run fills in the rest.

    • Until both commands run, the config is “incomplete” but still usable with warnings or defaults.

  4. Provide a validation command or a CLI flag like mulch validate-config to check the combined consistency and alert the user if mismatches exist.

Benefits

Optional Enhancement: Temporary Cache

TL;DR

Make reference.lock smartly merge partial data from workspace and src commands as they run, validating and warning as needed — no need to wait for both commands before writing config. This gives flexibility and robust state tracking without confusing the user.

Would you like me to draft the data schema for reference.lock or example merge code?

# reference.lock (TOML format example)

[workspace]
# Path where workspaces are created.
# Could be a relative path or absolute.
path = "workspaces/"       # default public workspace root
# Flags used with mulch workspace command for this setup
flags = ["--here"]         # or ["--stealth"], or empty list if default

[src]
# Path to the src directory or base src root
path = "src/"              # or ".mulch/src/" if stealth
# Flags used with mulch src command for this setup
flags = ["--stealth"]      # or empty list if default

[validation]
# Indicates whether the combined config is consistent
is_consistent = true
# List of warnings or errors as strings, e.g. mismatched flags
issues = []

[metadata]
# Timestamp of last update for workspace info
workspace_updated = "2025-08-09T14:00:00Z"
# Timestamp of last update for src info
src_updated = "2025-08-09T14:05:00Z"
# Optionally, a version number for the config format
version = "0.1"


### Explanation:

- **[workspace]** section captures info solely from `mulch workspace` runs:
    
    - `path` is where workspaces are created.
        
    - `flags` list contains any flags used (like `--here` or `--stealth`).
        
- **[src]** section captures info solely from `mulch src` runs:
    
    - `path` is where source code is located.
        
    - `flags` like `--stealth` or empty list.
        
- **[validation]** section holds the consistency status and any issues:
    
    - `is_consistent` boolean flag.
        
    - `issues` array with strings describing problems found, e.g., mismatched stealth flags between src and workspace.
        
- **[metadata]** holds timestamps for updates, useful for debugging or audits.
    

---

### Usage Notes

- On running `mulch workspace`, update `[workspace]` + timestamps + run validation.
    
- On running `mulch src`, update `[src]` + timestamps + run validation.
    
- Validation logic checks for incompatible flag combinations or path inconsistencies.
    
- Warnings / errors are appended to `issues` for user display.

import toml
from pathlib import Path
from datetime import datetime

REFERENCE_LOCK_PATH = Path(".mulch/reference.lock")

def load_reference_lock() -> dict:
    if REFERENCE_LOCK_PATH.exists():
        return toml.load(REFERENCE_LOCK_PATH)
    # Return default structure if missing
    return {
        "workspace": {"path": None, "flags": []},
        "src": {"path": None, "flags": []},
        "validation": {"is_consistent": True, "issues": []},
        "metadata": {"workspace_updated": None, "src_updated": None, "version": "0.1"},
    }

def save_reference_lock(data: dict):
    REFERENCE_LOCK_PATH.parent.mkdir(parents=True, exist_ok=True)
    with open(REFERENCE_LOCK_PATH, "w", encoding="utf-8") as f:
        toml.dump(data, f)

def validate_reference_lock(data: dict) -> dict:
    issues = []
    ws_flags = data.get("workspace", {}).get("flags", [])
    src_flags = data.get("src", {}).get("flags", [])
    ws_path = data.get("workspace", {}).get("path")
    src_path = data.get("src", {}).get("path")
    
    # Example validation 1: warn if workspace uses --here but src uses stealth
    if "--here" in ws_flags and "--stealth" in src_flags:
        issues.append(
            "Workspace is created with --here (public root) but src is in stealth mode. This may cause inconsistent references."
        )
    # Example validation 2: warn if workspace and src paths overlap unexpectedly
    if ws_path and src_path and ws_path in src_path:
        issues.append(
            f"Workspace path '{ws_path}' is nested inside src path '{src_path}'. This may cause confusion."
        )
    # Example validation 3: warn if either path is None
    if not ws_path:
        issues.append("Workspace path is not set yet.")
    if not src_path:
        issues.append("Src path is not set yet.")
    
    data["validation"]["is_consistent"] = len(issues) == 0
    data["validation"]["issues"] = issues
    return data

def update_reference_lock(part: str, path: str, flags: list[str]) -> dict:
    """
    part: either 'workspace' or 'src'
    path: string path for workspace or src root
    flags: list of flags used e.g. ['--here'], ['--stealth'], or []
    """
    data = load_reference_lock()
    now_iso = datetime.utcnow().isoformat() + "Z"
    
    data.setdefault(part, {})
    data[part]["path"] = path
    data[part]["flags"] = flags
    
    if part == "workspace":
        data.setdefault("metadata", {})
        data["metadata"]["workspace_updated"] = now_iso
    elif part == "src":
        data.setdefault("metadata", {})
        data["metadata"]["src_updated"] = now_iso
    
    data = validate_reference_lock(data)
    save_reference_lock(data)
    return data

# Example usage:

if __name__ == "__main__":
    # Update workspace info
    workspace_update = update_reference_lock(
        part="workspace",
        path="workspaces/",
        flags=["--here"]
    )
    print("After workspace update:", workspace_update["validation"])
    
    # Update src info
    src_update = update_reference_lock(
        part="src",
        path=".mulch/src/",
        flags=["--stealth"]
    )
    print("After src update:", src_update["validation"])